EPISODE 182 WITH GRACE ALDRIDGE FOSTER: THE IMPORTANCE OF WRITING WITH INTENT IN YOUR BUSINESS

Transcribed by Otter.ai

Erin Marcus  

All right, all right buttons have been pushed. Tech is actually collaborating. And welcome. Welcome to this episode of The radiate podcast, where I’m excited to talk about my guest, Grace Aldridge Foster, about her business model and what she does. We had a great conversation that I just want to share with everybody about how you iterate your business when you realize you need to adjust your model to reach your goals. But before we get into all of that, why don’t you tell everyone who you are and what you do and all the cool things?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. Thank you, Erin, I’m really happy to be here and excited to have another great conversation with you. My name is Grace Aldridge Foster, and I am the co-founder of bold type LLC. And bold type is a writing skills training company. So we partner with organizations of all shapes and sizes, and help train their teams to write better. So we don’t do the writing or the editing for our clients, but we teach them how to do their own writing, and editing better. And we do you know, one on one coaching small group workshops, large group presentations, all that good stuff. And we’ve worked with just about every industry you can think of at this point. It’s a lot of fun. Awesome, awesome.

Erin Marcus  

And I love what you do. Because you know, my background, I have a degree in journalism, I have a writing background. And I also have enough experience in the corporate world and in the business world to know that yeah, you might have passed general composition in high school. But Scary, scary, scary. There’s a lot of brilliant people who can do amazing things. And yet, when it comes to having to put it in writing, you would never think these people are as brilliant as they actually are.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, absolutely. If you have a conversation with those people, they’re incredibly articulate, you know, very smart. And I think what you said, Erin about how sure maybe you passed, you know, composition class in high school, but that doesn’t mean you’re you’re equipped to write at work is, is so insightful, because that’s what we notice a lot. My business partner case, and I both also continue to lecture in higher ed from time to time, and what we notice is that there’s a huge gap between the way people are taught to write in school, and then the ways in which they are expected to write and the workplace. Like, for example, I always ask my clients, have you ever? Have you ever taken a class? Like, have you ever had a formal class and how to write emails? And I would say, one out of every 50 People says yes.

Erin Marcus  

But well, it’s right, this idea of communicating with intent is completely different from what you learn in school. Compare and contrast this book in that book?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. So people, you know, they think they’re good writers. But then they get into their first job, their second or third and there they feel really unequipped to do the writing that’s expected of them. And, you know, if they’re lucky, maybe, you know, they realize that or someone points it out to them and gives them some, some additional training later, but a lot of people never get that. So that’s definitely something we try to focus on, you know, how can we fill those gaps, but you have to know what the gaps are first.

Erin Marcus  

And also, then if you add on top of it, small business owners, where so much of our writing is, aside from social media, it’s marketing focused content. And I think one of the reasons I do okay is my journalism degree. Because if you were to write a sales page, like a novel, no one would get to the end, right, you’ve got to reverse the pyramid, right? Like what’s in it for them. That’s got to be the attention grabber. And write it more like a newspaper article. Then a composition?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. I think we learned a lot of really bad habits in school and saving the mic drop for the end is one of those things. Exactly our attention spans are dwindling, like no one is going to get there. If you save the juicy stuff for the end, if they have to scroll eight times before you know your big reveal or whatever, you know, they’re not going to get to it. It’s not just that it won’t be impactful. It’s that they’ll never see it.

Erin Marcus  

They’ll never even see it. Yeah. And one of the tips that I give people, not just in the writing, but in general, is just always come from a place where you assume nobody knows what you’re talking about. Yes. Oh, yeah. Because we use jargon. I laugh because my test scores in my degree would tell you that I score off the charts on taking complex situations and breaking it down into small pieces. And while that might be true, the things that go back and forth between my insistent and I would have you believing I have no idea what I’m talking about most of the time. I am.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, absolutely, I know exactly what you mean. But it’s also, you know, the way you write for your assistant is, it’s just completely different than the way you’re going to write that polished marketing copy that, you know, hundreds of eyes will see. And that’s okay. You know, I think people don’t have to, you know, I had an intern once, who was wonderful. But I was we were going back and forth on a project, and we’re literally emailing back and forth, almost like you would text, you know, or at least with that frequency, you know, it was like a ongoing real time conversation, which is not a great way to use email, but it’s what we were doing. And every single time she responded to me, she would include a pleasant something like hope your afternoon is going really well, hope you’re having a great day. And I thought, well, I was having a great day a minute ago, I’m still having a great day, I was having a great day, five minutes ago, 10 minutes ago, you know, so I think it’s also about developing this judgment piece. You know, it’s understanding your audience, it’s understanding what you’re trying to get out of a particular document or conversation, and then understanding how to adjust your writing style to match that.

Erin Marcus  

Well, and I think the other place where this becomes so important for small business owners, and in certain departments like this was my job in corporate as well, is in any business where you have to deliver a proposal as part of your sales process. And people jump steps in the sales process, and just deliver these proposals that aren’t clear. All they talk about is money, scope of work without framework. Right, and they miss such an opportunity to reconnect.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, absolutely. And I think being realistic about Yeah, just where you are in a particular conversation is so important. And what is the purpose of that single document? You know, I think resumes are a great example of this. I’ll ask people, you know, what are you trying to accomplish with this resume, and they’ll say, oh, I want to land my dream job. A resume doesn’t land you your dream job or resume gets you an interview. Right. So that’s the purpose of your resume not to get your dream job, it’s just to basically get one step further and that process and that, that’s actually a relief, it takes a ton of pressure off that resume too, and helps you be a lot more targeted. So, you know, I think I think people try to do too much. And they put too much pressure on each thing that they write. And that contributes to this sort of general sense that writing is the worst, and it’s hard and everyone hates,

Erin Marcus  

It’s so true. And I It’s so crazy, because we met kind of randomly, right. And yet, you are the only person and I talked to probably 20 business owners a week, a week. And you are the only person in all these years to say something that I also explained the same way. The goal of every piece of communication is one thing, it’s to invite people to take one single further step with you. And those jumping steps: trying to sell somebody something from your 32nd introduction, trying to land your dream job from a resume, trying to solve the world’s problems. And guests, every caveat of every scenario that could ever happen. And putting their answers in an email is what messes people up.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, and it also makes the other person’s job harder, actually. I mean,

Erin Marcus  

the irony is kindness clearly, sadly,

Grace Aldridge Foster  

if I actually thought that a recruiter was going to make an exception for me, and and you know, decide until I go advocate, or something

Erin Marcus  

like a resume, here’s your job.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, my gosh, like think how much work that other person would have to do to help you jump all of those steps. I mean, it’s so it’s also inconsiderate, for so many reasons.

Erin Marcus  

And like you said, the right approach is actually the easier approach.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Yes, you’re right, and Erin.

Erin Marcus  

Right, the right approach is the easiest actually the easier approach which we all have that right, that’s the easy button. The right approach is actually the easy button. So I’m intrigued and I love the story of your business model because I work with a lot of writers. I think I attract a lot of writers because it’s my thing. So I end up working with a lot of writers who are trying to create larger businesses and they all hit the same problem and as is the case for many freelance type businesses it’s a bandwidth problem right? You can cap your income when it’s just you charging for the hour of service that you provide. So what was your you know, what’s the origin story for bold type which by the way, love the name of the company? In my journalism, my reporter days loves the name of your company, but like what’s it? The origin story there for bold type and how you figured out a different way to do this?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. Well, a few things. I mean, I definitely did a lot of freelancing before I started bold type, and I would, I would do you know, well, I’ll back up a little bit, I got my start working in college writing centers. And so I was doing one on one, you know, writing consultations, you know, small group presentations, presentations to classes, about different writing topics. So I started doing that. And then while I was in graduate school I started freelancing as well. And I would do anything I would say yes to anything that was remotely in my wheelhouse you ready for

Erin Marcus  

this? In college, I actually wrote about writing somebody’s term paper, like he read and did the thing. And then I helped him write it. And for trade, he changed the carburetor in my car. That’s a great trade. It was 1991. This is what we did back. I love it. That’s a great car. And I wrote his paper. I love it.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Yeah, yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah, so I was doing that I started freelancing, I would say yes to anything. I edited children’s book manuscripts I wrote, rewrote performance reviews for a multinational law firm. In one, it sure was, you know, all kinds of things. I wrote pitch pitch emails, I did anything that came across, I edited all kinds of weird stuff. And I would do anything that came across my desk, and I just figured it was a way to, you know, gain a lot of exposure, and kind of start to figure out what it is that I really wanted to do. You know, in case I didn’t want to go into academia, which I did think that I would do for a long time. And in my business partner’s case, he was doing the same thing. We’re both freelancing a lot. And so two things, we had a mentor who had done a business like bold type for a long time. So we did get to witness, you know, the trainer model. So absolutely, I don’t think I don’t know that we would have known it was an option. Right? If we hadn’t seen him doing it. So I just want to say very clearly that we owe him a lot, because he showed us what was possible. And I have

Erin Marcus  

that I have had that exact conversation for it four times, three, four times, just in the past couple of days, with extremely high performing on the verge of seven figure businesses, that just sometimes it takes that outside approach to say, look, there’s a slightly different model here that can make a big difference for you.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Exactly, exactly. I mean, I used to think, oh, maybe I could make a living freelancing, I could make a living editing, I could write proposals, you know, I could I could do that I, you know, get it. People know that I do this work. So I do get you know, referrals, I get inbound requests for that kind of thing, I could probably make a living doing that. And I know people who absolutely do that. And it’s really valid. But you know, I think I was pretty interested in also, you know, developing a brand and creating a business that we thought could scale and wasn’t just tied to the hours that we had directly to perform the service in a given week. And that was the nice thing about this training model, is that you could reach more than one person at once. And we could package up a lot of our expertise and a lot of our experience. And then, you know, sellers that deliver the workshops are not just charging for our three hours of time, when we give a workshop we’re charging for all of our expertise, and all of our time, you know, building that training, so it felt a lot more scalable. And that’s something that you can teach other people to deliver for you as well. And, you know, it also helps that that to me felt more rewarding. And I don’t know if that would be true for everyone. But I liked the interpersonal interaction. I loved well, also

Erin Marcus  

you had that background where you were contemplating academia as a career as well.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. And I certainly had teaching experience. So you know, it’s something that I felt comfortable doing. And yeah, it just felt to me like a better way to scale and like, sort of a more dynamic model than just,

Erin Marcus  

and what you did is finding that intersection, and I talk about this all the time, and I love that you’re such a great example of it. Where is the intersection between the thing that I’m great at and my ideal client’s biggest problem, like where is that intersection? And if you play in that space, not that everyday’s puppies, and unicorns, I’m sure, but it’s certainly going to be a lot more successful and a lot easier or a lot happier fulfilling then People I watched, like, do what I call the banging your head against the wall business models.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, yeah. Well, and also, is it something that people do? Is it a problem that your prospective clients know they have? And is it something that they’re willing to pay for? I mean, it’s so it’s just pragmatic, right? It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s pragmatic.

Erin Marcus  

So one of the things that I like to do here, and this is also like a mini task, is how I can tell that I’m talking to real entrepreneurs. Let’s shorten people’s learning curves on the business building side. What have you done that doesn’t work that we can just warn people off of like, just don’t do what I do and who don’t? My favorite thing is don’t do what I did, you’ll be better. I’ll just be better. Or my true entrepreneurs, like, oh, Which story do you like?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. Two things come to mind for me. And one, one is, be really careful about how much coaching you personally as the owner of the business agreed to do. Yeah, it’s extremely meaningful work. But one-on -one coaching, like that, requires an enormous output of energy from you. And you, if you are running a business, you know, you have more responsibilities than just delivering services and with a bandwidth problem. Absolutely. So I think you have to, I think people tend to look at their calendars, and they think I have 40 hours a week or whatever, I can pack a ton of client work into that. But realistically, just because your calendar says that you’re available, does not mean that you actually have availability for yet another client that is in it.

Erin Marcus  

And it’s also like, my guidelines that I use is I want my calendar to be 50% marketing and growing my business 20-25% client facing and 20 to 25% team building and admin. Oh, I

Grace Aldridge Foster  

I love that. That’s my guidelines. Yeah, That’ll preach love that.

Erin Marcus  

See, there’s a reason we got a law. Degree. Yes, no, absolutely. You’re absolutely dead on and that’s why people do it out of scarcity. They do it because like you said, they just don’t realize the math behind it. And the other thing you said, That’s so so so true, is when you give a workshop, you’re not charging for three hours of time, you’re charging for all of your expertise. And I think that’s a place people go wrong a lot, especially if they come out of corporate, if they come out of a job mentality. They’re saying, Oh, well, it’s only taking me hours. No, it’s not seeking a decade of experience to be able to do the workshop in three hours.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Absolutely. Yeah, your fee for your time to show up and do that thing is just one line item and the project is the cost of the project. And it takes sure it takes some some trial and error, you should talk to people, you should get a sense for what an appropriate, you know, rate is and you know, when you’re just starting out, maybe maybe the margin between like your actual hourly rate, and the total project rate is like fairly small, but over time it can and should grow.

Erin Marcus  

Absolutely right.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

I tell you, that’s how you pay for your overhead. Yeah,

Erin Marcus  

It’s so true. And I tell people, especially starting out that your fee is not a math problem. It’s a gut problem. Oh, yeah. It becomes a math problem. But in the beginning, it’s really a gut problem.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

That’s really interesting.

Erin Marcus  

Yeah. And then what’s gone really well, what’s something that you’re just proud of that moment, like? Yeah,

Grace Aldridge Foster  

I think actually, since I was already talking about coaching, and this is, this is not some brilliant thing that no one else has ever thought of before. But we, you know, kind of realized, like, wow, we’re really burning ourselves out doing a lot of one on one work. And we’re basically recreating the wheel every time, every time. It’s like a custom solution for every client. And that is exhausting. And it’s not sustainable, it will absolutely lead to burnout. And you might be delivering an amazing service, but it’s like you cannot possibly charge enough to actually compensate yourself for doing that. So one of the things that I was most proud of a couple of years ago, I finally was like, I’m going to spend a couple of months creating a standard coaching program package. And that is what we’re going to sell and I’m going to hire other people who can actually deliver it. And that has been one of the best changes in our business because it frees up myself and my business partner from doing a lot of the service delivery. But also I can when I have sales calls. I like that we think about coaching as a product really rather than a service. I know what that product entailed. I spent years creating it and putting it together, I can talk about it. And I feel really, you know, really good about what it is that I’m selling to people.

Erin Marcus  

Absolutely. And what you’ve done effectively, the way that I describe it is you crossed over the bridge from entrepreneur to business owner, the way that you’re talking about what you’re doing is different than what a solopreneur and I, you know, I say entrepreneur, because that word doesn’t really mean the same thing it used, it used to mean like venture capitalists, and now it means right, someone who doesn’t work for a company, so, but crossing that bridge into the way you’re making your decisions. And this is like a really big teaching point, is the way you’re making decisions as a business owner. Because if your decision making processes, not your energy , are not business owners, you’re not going to make the right decisions.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Oh, absolutely. Well, and because I’m a writing person, I have to talk about how, when you’re doing that, if you’re trying to think about the problems that your clients have, you’re trying to create products and services that solve the problems that they have. Writing is a big part of that, you know, we’re teaching writing, but also you have to write about your products and services in a way that your audience will resonate with. You have to have conversations with them. So you know what keywords they use, what questions they ask, and you have to reflect those things in your copy. You have to work on descriptions of workshops or services or products that you don’t have to change every time you send them to a new client, for example. I mean, it’s incredible. As our as a writing expert, how long it took me to learn that lesson that I don’t, I don’t need to write a new workshop description for every client who you know, asks for a proposal, think about my clients think about their problems, think about their questions, and then intentionally write something that I can use over and over and over. And that’s how you start thinking like a business owner, too. It’s how you can scale things when you’re not having to recreate the wheel every single time.

Erin Marcus  

And the other thing you started out with, though, before you do all that is you talk to people. Yep, doing that work in a bubble is not as like, you probably have reasonable instincts, but you can’t reflect back and you can’t create a resonating copy. If you’re not talking to anybody.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

That’s right. Well, and you might know what people need, but it may not be what they want, what they think they need, what they want to buy. So whether they say it, or the way they say it. Absolutely. So it’s not I mean, your model, your products or services might be completely viable. But if you don’t understand, yeah, the words that your clients use, the way they ask for things, the way they describe things, what they think their problems are, you won’t be able to, you won’t be able to sell anything to them because they won’t understand that what you offer is in fact what they you won’t

Erin Marcus  

have that mic drop moment that yeah, takes people to that next step with you. Yeah, so that sounds like a really good softball there. If people want to take this next step with you wanting to see communication, if people want to take the next step if they want to reach out and connect with you. And I really recommend that they do and find out more about how you can help them and see what amazing, amazing difference like I cannot stress this enough how important this is in business. What’s the best way for them to get a hold of you?

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Thank you, Erin. Well, our websites are a great place to start. It’s easy. It’s www dot bold type.us. We also have a company LinkedIn page under bold type. And I’d love to connect with people individually as well. My name is Grace Aldridge booster on LinkedIn

Erin Marcus  

awesome well, thank you so much for your insights and your story because a lot like the right sister from another mister on the whole communication thing, as well as very exciting to hear about your business model journey and how effective that was. So yeah, you did a good job. And thank you so much for your time.

Grace Aldridge Foster  

Awesome. Thanks for having me here.